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GOLDIN: So this is, you know, a film made by two very strong women who've always had final cut of their own work. There was no one else present. What did you want those photos to say? And I found them so beautiful and so moving and powerful in their lives. I became completely isolated. I just wanted to hear what kind of beer the person wanted. And I took pictures every day and took them to a drugstore and brought back snapshots and collected piles of snapshots, which some of the times they ripped them up if they didn't like them. Excuse me this is my room eng. I don't think we ever felt like that with each other. Each night, the men look so surprised. And generally, I've tried to maintain that right to all the people I photograph over 50 years. And my mother didn't understand my sister at all.

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This Is My Room Raw

We'll be right back. We always talked about them face to face. They felt very large and dangerous to me, whether or not they were. I'd seen him throw, so he definitely wasn't playing quarterback. There were mostly working class people who worked around the bar. As someone who invested more hours of his precious life pushing back against the entire narrative of the Pliability War that was waged in the media from about 2017 until now, I'm taking a victory lap. And somebody sold me something that I thought was heroin, and it was fentanyl. All the Beauty and the Bloodshed' chronicles Nan Goldin's art and activism : Shots - Health News. So you took it out, but you decided if you were willing to ask her to do that, then you should be willing to do it yourself and have yourself photographed or photograph yourself - I'm not sure which it was - in, you know, in - while engaging in sex. It's Lucinda Williams singing "Unsuffer Me. GOLDIN: No, I never did anything like that. And every word of this is exactly how I've imagined it to be.

And he'd go through eight things that happened: tackle flash in front of me; this guy slipped; I saw the linebacker drop wide; safety was a little deeper than I thought he would be; and then this guy stepped in front and I kind of put it a little bit behind him because I saw this other guy closing. GROSS: Laura, as somebody who directed the film and didn't participate actively in the protests other than filming them, how much do you attribute the success of taking down the Sackler name from many major museums to the work of Nan Goldin and her group, P. N.? Later, during COVID, there was a bankruptcy case where the Sacklers had shed their company of all the money and put it offshore, like $10 million - $10 billion, excuse me. And the company went bankrupt. This is my room raw. It's a really remarkable film. GROSS: It was beautiful because, I mean, visually beautiful. And you were in New Jersey instead of New York, 'cause in New York, you would have had to be bottomless. Some people will, you know, talk about, like, how it looks at the difficulty of, you know, relationships and gender - so many ways in which it's been groundbreaking for people. That's really my motive in showing the work.

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POITRAS: Thanks so much, Terry. This gets to some of the trauma of your childhood. GROSS: Well, describe them. So once they get done writing all the nice things, the championships, and this, and then they just go 'Well this works.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. Every stereotype I didn't fulfill was an excuse for more mockery. So, Laura, let's start with you. And I came up in a time of black-and-white vertical photographs about light. And she told me that she was looking for other people to join the project. And I have thought now about making a piece about age. Accuracy and availability may vary. It was the beginning of people starting to go to galleries. Excuse me this is my room raw manhwa. Because they look like art pieces. And at the end, I couldn't get oxy. But it - fentanyl is in all the drugs now. And I gave these interviews with the understanding that I could have some say in what was used later. That's genuine raw emotion. But they were photos of her friends, people who were considered social outcasts like drag queens and other queer people and people in the underground art and music scene.

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The stigma for the AIDS phobia and the stigma was incredible for people living with AIDS. And things came out that I had never told anybody. One of them is a photograph, a self-portrait, of you with one eye with a thick bandage over it. I think the representation of queer identity, queer sexuality, you know, it's just all groundbreaking. GROSS: And, Laura, what about you? GOLDIN: It was a tripod. Some of the other people that testified were incredibly moving. And I think it's true. She founded the group P. A. I. N., an acronym for Prescription Addiction Intervention Now, which led anti-Sackler die-ins and other protests at museums. What was it like being the bartender there?

Congratulations on it. The way in which she redefined, I think, storytelling with images both within the frame, there's just this sense of mise en scene, the lighting, the sense of characters. Some of your early work was about your friends who were drag queens. And I learned everything about doing performative actions and die-ins.

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They're about beauty, but they're also imbued with a kind of loneliness. You weren't born yet at the time, but you found out about that. And she actually began the film. They're kind of frozen in time, those images. GROSS: But did you have a stand-in or something so you could see, like, what the lighting was like and where to position it? And one thing I always appreciate about Coach Belichick and like, is that he's not afraid to have a hard conversation too.

But it also made me very aware of the family because my mother's first reaction that I heard her say to the police is, don't let the children know. Or... GOLDIN: No, I hope to be dressed by a brand like Chanel or Prada. Nan, you were one of the people who testified directly to the Sacklers. GROSS: So this has been a pretty heavy conversation, talking about, you know, very personal and very political subjects. And she supported that. And Belichick echoes those same heartfelt sentiments: "I learned so much from Tom because, as you know, I never played quarterback and I never saw the game through the quarterback's eyes. It has not disappointed: Here are the quotes: "For me, there's nobody I'd rather be associated with. I think that's an important note. And so work that was positive was important. So this collaboration, it's amazing that it went as well and ended as well as it did.

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GROSS: And she had been sexually - you found this out later, I think, that she had been sexually abused as a early teen? General distrust of the medical system, which has historically been discriminatory and harmful toward visible minorities, was also a factor. After making films about war, the release of secret government documents, why did you want to make a film about Nan Goldin? And it felt very important that it be me telling my story the way I lived it.

You, being a little older, lived through the AIDS epidemic, and you lost many friends in it. I just wanted him to coach. But also, I was making my work, and a lot of it was about people who were living and dying from AIDS. And you're invisible, which I kind of like.